Survey – how do you like the Tamaki Drive cycling works?
More is still to come in future months and years, but most of the recent works on Tamaki Drive are finished, except for some tidying up.
Cycle Action Auckland has been out on site reviewing the works – and many of our comittee members and associates also often ride there. In a while, we will be contacting Auckland Transport to discuss how well the changes are working.
Especially for the Kelly Tarlton’s area, we would like to also get your feedback in our survey.
Please take a few minutes to fill in the online survey form to tell us your own opinion, and mention anything that you feel works particularly well – or particularly badly – so we can raise it with AT. And please spread the word about the survey!
Survey now closed. Thanks for participating!
CAA Committee, Key Projects, Surveys, Tamaki Drive
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Auckland Transport, CAA Committee, Cycle Action Auckland, Kelly Tarlton, Key Projects, Surveys, Tamaki Drive, Tamaki Drive cycling
Fullers (CAA Sponsor)
Themocracy
Thanks Max – great blog and survey! A big team of road and commuter cyclists from Cycle Action Auckland and bunch cycling teams are working with Auckland Transport to make these road changes a success. There’s heaps of goodwill from AT and the Orakei Local Board to make the road safer for cyclists – we all owe it to Jane Bishop’s family to pull together on this one. I hope we get a massive response to the survey.
We know that some cyclists are not happy with all of the changes, and that it will take a while for us to adjust to the new road layout. In the meantime, this survey will help keep communication open between the cycling community and AT’s team working with us. Get those responses rolling in – please!
Barb Cuthbert, for the Tamaki Drive Working Group, and Chair of Cycle Action Auckland
these pedestrian outcrops and islands are appearing all over auckland and are leathel for cyclist as vehicles force their way through the narrow gap or panic and screech to slow down. the kelly tarlton outcrops are a worse problem because asian tourists just walk straight out onto the road thinking the whole world has to stop for their tourist dollar. also: at triangle road henderson the bollards to seperate cycle lane and road have to go. they are only good for retaining loose stones and glass and difficult to clean. i saw a guy on a scooter crash there. ouch. broken teeth.
also. the north western cycle way is just a jumble of broken footpaths, driveways and bits of roading packed with glass especially. there is a patch of bitumen layed over wire mesh near the bridge at lincoln road which has caused many cycle crashes due to wooden slates along side the bituman become super slippery when wet.
Hi Cactus. That bridge is being replaced by a new, dedicated cycle bridge as part of the current motorway works.
We share your concerns about many of the parts of the NW Cycleway, but I can’t say I look at it with disfavour. It is a product of 10 years ago, when cycling was seen as something weird people did. Accordingly, not much money was spent on it, relatively speaking – and it still gained a lot of riders, again, comparatively speaking. Now we have moved on, and will have to go back and fix things up to a higher standard. That doesn’t mean the people who fought for it in the first place did the wrong thing! Far from it – I honour their achievement, just as I did the first guy who decided to paint a line on the Tamaki Drive footpath and call it a bike path which we love to hate now. Without these first steps, there would have been no more steps.
Hi cactus, I don’t agree with your opinions about pedestrians stepping out on a zebra crossing. Nor about the comment on asian tourists.
Sharing the road requires both sides to give respect, and not everywhere do cars or cycles have to have priority.
Shame you dislike the Triangle Road layout – but I suspect few people will want to go back to cars in the cycle lane there. The comments about gravel in the lane are worrying, and a sign that the whole area has too much such loose chip flying around. It certainly something AT will have to look into, and CAA will raise with them, because you weren’t the first person to mention the issues with the gravel there.
yeah well if you had just stuck to the facts and said a ”person” stepped out, without putting them into your stereotyping process, your opinion may well have held far more weight and respect, just a tip for the future eh.
Cactus, is quite right – it is Tourists of Asian extraction who frequent there. She is just making an observation, and a good one at that. Don’t be so precious Max.
Sorry, but ethnic stereotypng asians like that ISN’T okay, especially when followed with “thinking the whole world has to stop for their tourist dollar”, clearly showing he/she thinks these people are arrogant morons.
Cactus could easily have restricted the comment to tourists in general, or pedestrians in the area in general. It would have still been arguable, but at least not offensive. And unless Cactus has any proof that Asians behave in worse manner at the crossing than Europeans (or Martians), I don’t see how their ethnicity is relevant.
Further, I could just as well respond to such comments with “Gosh, those impossible tourists – they actually come from countries where people EXPECT drivers (and cyclists) to stop for them when they have priority at a zebra crossing? How shocking.” That comment arguably has more basis in reality, because pedestrians happen to have right of way at NZ zebra crossings too…
The whole comment showed to me an attitude that we are trying to overcome among motorists – lack of care for other road users. Let’s not replicate it among cyclists. Ride to the conditions, respect other people. Cheers.
I haven’t actually used the new road layout yet as I was using the off-road path while the works were taking place. Now that they are finished, I’ll pay extra attention to the works next time I go through, even though last Friday night, coming back to the city, I loved the nice wide green path around the corner.
Hi Christoper – the survey will be up for a week at least, so feel free to take until next Sunday to answer.
Yip- me too- I’ve posted the link on my FaceBook and will ride it this week and feedback.
Barb
The new road lay out at Kelly Tarltons has already caused two major crashes due to the speed humps that I know of,one requiring an ambulance.
There use to be one speed hump on Tamaki Drive now there is four plus uneven bricks that they have laid in the road. There has also been an increase in road islands and furniture which just increase pinch points.
It is a shame that the spent all that money and have just made things on the whole more dangerous and problem areas like crossing at Ngapipi Bridge are still unchanged.
Justin, they are preparing works on Ngapipi to the tune of over 1 million dollars. Let’s see what they propose…
Regarding your concerns, I hope you filled out your survey – from my hour-long review and several ride-throughs, the traffic islands and speed tables work fine – but if you feel they are dangerous, please describe where and why so we can raise the issue with AT. Also, it would be interesting if you think the two crashes you describe were in any way affected by construction traffic signage, which a lot of cyclists were concerned about?
*Take the whole lane at the pinch points* I always do; it’s my life I’m concerned about, not the 5 seconds of time saving for some driver.
How does it work? If I’m riding towards the city on the bike-’path’ when I reach the new development the bike-’path’ disappears. No more white dividing line – it has been blacked out. Am I meant to cross the road and join the bike-’lane’ on the road and then re-cross the road at Okahu Bay to rejoin the bike-’path’?
Hi Megan – no, they have removed the centre line in that area because where it pinches down, it is too narrow to assume that cyclists and pedestrians will each be able to stay in “their space” – well, even more so than on the rest of the path, but let’s not go there now. You can still ride where the line has been blacked out, but everyone is supposed to use the same space, and cyclists have to give way to peds according to the new sign they put up.
It’s far from ideal, but the centre line is somewhat misleading at the best of times.
Thanks Max, I may be being a bit technical here but the true ‘pinch’ point (the actual corner) was never delineated and always a area requiring consideration. The dividing line has been removed from the new ‘re-entrance’ point leading up to the pinch point and after the pinch point on the very wide path opposite Kelly Tarltons. Appreciate your advice saying we are still allowed to ride this bit and there will be a sign but the obvious removal of the lines coupled with the precedence of a line existing on a ‘true’ bike-path is only going to encourage the occassional intolerant pedestrian. Agree – far from ideal.
Hi Megan – you are right, it never went all the way through, just further.
Well, this area is to receive one of the large-scale upgrades soon. While one can ask whether it’s worth spending several million on this, getting a boardwalk addition from kelly Tarlton’s all the way to the Millenium Bridge at Mission Bay will certainly fix the path issue here.
We will raise the potential confusion matter with AT in the interim.
Megan, that sounds like a road I rode down today. I had my hybrid with a trailer on the back with 2 kids in it.. and got abused because I didnt cycle on the cycle path (which meant a lady had to slow down for a few secs to wait for me). But to cycle on the cycle path means I had to make 4 major road crossings.. where not riding on it meant I just rode in the parking bit on the side, and had to go through one roundabout (still had to go through that anyway.. just on the wrong side of the road for where I was going).
*sigh*
Rode through Kelly tarlton corner twice and think it is s vast improvement n what was thrre before. It’s almost a memorial to Jane B.
While I commend the good intentions of most involved, I don’t see the Tamaki Drive changes as making things that much better. Two sets of crossings at Kelly Tarlton’s simply doubles the chance of a pedestrian stepping out in front of you (as pedestrians are want to do at crossings), and can you imagine how backed up the traffic will become at the height of summmer with two crossings to deal with – the waterfront in both directions will simply be a gigantic carpark, and that level of congestion means bad news for cyclists. How about some meaningful changes like; remove the cycle path (on the footpath) on the south side of the road from Ngapipi to Quay Street and tarseal it as part of the road, but then designate that strip as a bike lane (no one uses the bike path on that side of the footpath at moment anyway); remove the bike path (on the footpath) on the north side of the Ngapipi Overbridge and, again, convert that bit into a proper bike lane (that would remove the horrendous pinch point that currently occurs at the bridge); remove those ridiculous pedestrian ‘safety islands’ at the entrance to St Heliers heading east – they are significant pinch points and if you can’t safely cross the road as a pedestrian without one then perhaps venturing outside isn’t such a good idea for you, etc. In general the changes made simply increase the chances of traffic congestion and rogue pedestrians. Still, in this ridiculous PC world I’m sure Transport Auckland believes they have removed risk and that’s all that matters right…….??
Can’t wait to see what they plan for the Ngapipi rd intersection. A vanishing cycle lane and a sign that says “cyclists take care” doesn’t cut it.
I agree with Bryce. That Ngapipi rd intersection is a nightmare ! When we are travelling towards town and come down Tamaki Drive, you suddenly have this lane merging from the left. There needs to be a warning light for drivers coming down Ngapipi and onto Tamaki saying beware of cyclists to your right,,,,, they merge alongside you
Hi Brett & Bryce. We are following this up, and will be closely involved in checking AT’s design, hopefully early on, before it becomes a fixed proposal and can still be flexibly discussed.
Right now, we have no indication yet what they are planning.
I don’t understand why there is not a Give Way sign for cars on Ngapipi Road approaching Tamaki Driveand turning left into Tamaki Drive. It’s very hard, as a bike rider, traveling Eastwards to merge with cars sweeping around the corner heading to the CBD. A give way sign would be quick and easy and hold cars back until they have given way to through traffic.
You mean travelling westwards, don’t you Barb?
The answer is that car capacity trumps safety. Changing the layout to make Ngapipi traffic give way was suggested by CAA, but was not considered feasible because it would delay the substantial flow out of Ngapipi onto Tamaki Drive.
I agree with Barb. The converging traffic at Ngapipi / Tamaki is a huge hazard. Cyclists heading west are left stranded, with high speed traffic on both sides. I suggest that safety trumps car capacity, and there should be a give way sign of traffic turning left out of Ngapipi. Or perhaps road features to slow cars down to 30 kph or less.
Hi Alistair – I DO hope that you realised that I was being facetious / frustrated with my “capacity trumps safety” comment?
Lets look at the improvement and yes it is singular and that is there is now more room going around Jane’s corner. Big tick there.
The remainder of the works might have improved thing visually from a landscape architects view but in a practical sense it hasn’t. There are more hazards(road surface changes) to now negotiate, more pedestrian crossings which will cause more interruption to traffic flow (more people will make dumb decisions that put others at risk)and more confusion with the general public about why cyclists are allowed on the road and the path. The traffic will now back up right through the Ngapipi intersection on weekday evenings in the summer when there are events planned in the bays causing even more chaos. I wonder if the people that dream up these plans can look past the end of their working week. Pity help what this will be like in 10 years time with the increase of population per sq km as predicted!
A great improvement! However with Summer cars will park opposite Tarltons, and careless door opening will occur. Car parking along there should be eliminated, and new large offroad carpark created just past the Sea Scouts, with direct access from that road that goes up the hill rather than Tamaki Drive. Pedestrian islands there and at St Heliers in the cycle lane are hazardous.
For traffic turning left from Ngapipi into Tamaki Drive there should be a large Give Way to Cyclists Merging Left sign. Motorists looking behind them over their shoulders and just gunning it are scary! Thanks.
Hi Neil – one of our worries we raised during the consultation was that cars would park in the outside bend next to the cycle lane. AT is of the opinion that will be covered by better enforcement. We will keep a watching brief on that, and ask for changes if it becomes a common issue.
A curiosity is the cycle lane from the east into Mission Bay which terminates in a nice point into the back of the carparking lane. Just to finish it off square would be better!
Awesome new smooth road surfaces particulary at st heliers, thanks…My only gripe is the laying of small uneven square tiles in the road,i would like to know the reasoning for their installation, woudn’t think they are neccessary road improvements when good old Hotseal would have been perfectly acceptable.
Hi Marc – AT sees them as a traffic calming (speed reducing) device, and a sign that drivers are entering a special area (such as Kelly Tarlton’s or Mission Bay or other town centres) and should pay more attention & slow down (a so-called gateway treatment). CAA is a bit of two minds about them…
How about the two horrible pinch points when heading east before Ngapipi. The first just past the lights to the port…the road should be marked as narrowing so cars get warning and allow cyclists to ride in the lane safely, the second just a bit further along at the bridge.
Entry and exit points to cycle path at the road gutter should be painted so its easy to see at night including the one just past the Ngapipi bridge.
the pedestrian islands appearing all over auckland are dangerous to cyclists.
the north western cycle lane is a joke.also the part that has the bitumen over the wire mesh has wooden slats which are super slippery when wet and has caused many crashes, broken bikes and ribs.
the course chip seal road is lethal to cyclists on road bikes. mountain bikes ok. tyre wear is 30% increased, rough shocking ride, lethal if fall off.
CAA has several times opposed chip seal re-sealing when we became aware of it. Indeed, it feels like someone puts the brakes onto your bike… However, I don’t think any was used anywhere on Tamaki Drive?
The much-needed safety outcomes are mostly good and I agree with Hayden and others that it’s very good to have the on-road cycle lane as you cycle around the corner. I understand Auckland Transport went into this with best of intentions to improve pedestrian and cyclist safety.
To me it’s a shame that the the resulting environment around Kelly Tarltons is so ugly and strangely people unfriendly. There are so many ugly new signs and lights, including the fluorescent pedestrian crossing signs, beacons and poles, shared path signs, the cycle lane signs, the “cyclists give way to peds” sign, the loading bay sign, the coach parking signs. I don’t think the various road surface treatments do anything to add a sense of place.
Isn’t it possible for us to learn from international experience how to create a road design which is a good urban experience? Takaparawhau Point is a beautiful corner on a beautiful road, where Aucklanders and tourists try to enjoy the view, the wharf, and the cultural history. Now it’s a jumble of visual clutter. I don’t think this adds to Auckland’s urban transformation and it probably doesn’t make it safer either.
All power to Orakei Local Board’s vision of a holistic future masterplan for Tamaki Drive…
Hi Kirsten – comparing before and after images, I don’t share your opinions that the visual look of the area is much worse than before (but then we have had that discussion before – and maybe as an engineer, I see a kind of functional beauty in some things where other people see clutter).
I think what makes this area somewhat unfriendly is the large expanses of hard surface – not only on the road, where it is kinda unavoidable, but also on the car park on the eastern side, and the big concrete surface on the west. Of course, with the Kelly Tarlton tanks underneath, we won’t be seeing trees here anytime soon, and even grass would be hard to do, I’d expect.
Maybe if one could soften up the expanse of concrete with pretty paving, and provide a set of tidal stairs down to the sea? But quite expensive, and maybe not as important as providing a wider boardwalk where it is so narrow at the eastern end of the area?
Even if the boardwalk to the east is the key change coming next for the area, there may be some scope to improve the “concrete plaza” a bit as well.
yay- love that bike riders are commenting for AT on the Cycle Action site!
- what we need is one ‘go to’ place- so we can come straight in from riding our bikes and report what’s bothered us re safety on our trip.
What do you all think about the ability to post pxts with your comments- if appropriate and useful. This would increase our ability to convey the whole traffic hazard issue and suggested solutions- direct from bike riders to Auckland Transport?
You can’t text or pxt to the Council hotline and I am reluctant to use my cell phone on a ride to call the call centre -I am the only person in my group who does and it takes up half my coffee time -and I have trouble identifying the address of the problem/ car number plate etc. (try explaining the address of ‘The Landing”).
In the absence of Ak Transport having the facility to receive texts and pxts- perhaps we could model the system here on the Cycle Action website- is that technically possible? desirable? Useful?
Does any one else have some feedback on the new road layout in Orakei Road on the new higher bridge over the railway line and the road leading up to the bridge. The bridge is widened- and the footpath going East is very very wide- leaving the road lanes very narrow- there is no easily accessed drop down to move on to the footpath and off again and all the new lips on the drop downs along that road are 50mls high- so I have to get off my road bike in the traffic stream to mount the curb. This is an important route for Aucklanders- car and bike- and is pretty scary on a bike particularly at peak hours. From the bridge- if you want to turn right up kepa road you have to take the right lane -which really gets in the way of drivers- how about a norrow green cycle lane between the left and right lanes all the way from the bridge to the roundabout at the bottom of kepa road ?
Also- cutting the trees hanging over Ngapipi road – they push me into the lane of traffic as I descend down to the Kepa Road roundabout.
..and before you suggest it Max-yes I have made this comment to the Ak Transport – have a say online site – but I am interested in what bike riders think?
Rode it on Sunday, as i came through i thought how easy it would have been to take 1m from the foot path and put it in to a cycle lane.
It seems like an extremely wide footpath at the expense of some road; which in itself is odd for Auckland traffic management practices are ‘road first’.
If not a, green road, cycle lane, they could at least remove the curb at each end and mark it as a shared cycle\foot path. I looked at teh possibility of risking it as i came through, but i like my wheels straight!.
Major cycle\traffic route weekender’s and week day. shame about the missed opportunity.
I very rarely turn right in to keppa, but that’s another dangerous spot.
The excellent Cycle Action video – how to bike from the Airport to the CBD – how do I find it on this site so I can send the link to people please?
I have had no problem with the new layout at Kelly Tarlton but I would have expected Auckland Transport to have had discussions with the Cycle Action group to get there input before spending all this money and then changing it. Do it once and do it right. I do however still dis like the change over from Tamaki Drive at the Ngapipi Road inter change. Something there needs to be done. I do think that if both cyclist and vehicle drivers are more aware and conscious of each other there would be less accidents.It is called courtesy.
Hello Laurie – Cycle Action had extensive discussions with Auckland Transport at various stages, including about our concerns with the kerb build-outs. Sadly, they did not take nearly all our recommendations on board – and on the kerb-build-outs, they felt that these were required for pedestrian safety.
We are still in further discussions with them, though, so hopefully there can be further tweaks.
On Ngapipi, plans are “in the works”, but we have not seen anything but very concept-y plans yet.
Hi, I rode through here last night, both ways. I think I’ll just take the whole lane for the entire length of this area. It’s not far at all, it’s safer for me to do so, and bugger the drivers wanting to sped – going to Mission Bay they can wait till I’m around onto the cycle lane outside Okahu Yacht Club – and coming back, till I’m just past Hammerheads.